Views shared by various CA's on the event organised by CAsansaar.com

13-Jun-2011 , 03:51:23 am | By CASANSAAR print

Various Views and suggestions shared by Various CA’s on the event organized by CAsansaar.com on “Role Of CA’s in Controlling Black Money” on 11^th June 2011, which can be verified by the link given below:

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=172880902773142

A dog does not bite the hand that feeds it." Why shall a CA qualify an audit report if he gets his compensation from the client?? That is why we hardly see any qualified reports.... yet there's a lot of manipulation in accounts. Your views?

Yes I agree with this why cant our Institute make a system where Auditees have no choice to appoint their Auditors . I Think the Root cause of all scams is that after all CA's Listen and dance to the Tunes of their Clients because ultimately the fees has to come from them only and they are their Friends or reltives Why cant we change this scene. Even for Bank Audits the Auditees are choosing their Auditors Is.nt it shame ful that we vhave not been able to do some thing about it.

Our Institute must form a committee to suggest ways and means to the Government

CAs hv got major role 2 play, coz dey knw abt d loop holes 4m wher tax planning comes in handy 4 dos black money makers.
CG needs 2 appoint CA's while framing DTAA or TIEA ( tax info exchange agreemnt).
The 2nd thing,i'll suggest is CG shud plug scope of tax evasion.

How many of us wud actually do something to controll black money...wud we really become strict n stop giving bribes in the department, n stop guiding our clients about illegal tax planning etc...

Respected Organisers from ICAI. This high time that a person is subjecting his life for such noble cause for nation and we must discuss on this issue Today and give a memorandum to the Govt on this burning issue. Chartered Accountants can play role in framing the legislation relating to black money. In fact Sec 44 AD and similar provisions have become teeth less. The Clients are showing Lower Turnover , Lower profits and do not wish to pay Taxes because they are Too high in this competitive world. First and Foremost step should be to reduce Tax Rate which will induce Business men to show their real Turnover and Profits and bring Money into the system

Responsibility of creating black money is not an indiviual C.A , corporate or politicians. Its not wether micro or MACRO is the root cause Solution to black is a simple concise and clear
No ramdev no anna , no UPA, NO BJP
SUPREME COURT ON ITS OWN WITH A PANEL OF HONEST DISCLOSED INCOME OFFICE BEARERS WITHOUT ANY BIAS, IN AN EMERGENCY LIKE SITUATION WHERE NO PARTY INFLUENCES WILL BRING JUSTICE 2 THE NATION

One more issue..Institute has fixed 45 tax audit assignments in order to ensure there is no monoply like...But what CAs do they accept assignments greater than 45 and then transfer it to new CAs at 1500 or even less or nearabout..Is this practice acceptable???

They engaged sleeping partners.. and defeating the purpose of quality.. wt are intiative take by institute in this regard.

I have these comments, Sir: - 1. In India, we have doomed ourselves with democracy where elections have necessarily to be won only through money and muscle power; 2. Without the help of black money, it is impossible for any person to become a law-maker or for that matter, an effective law-breaker; 3. Political "leaders" use black money to get into power, use muscle to intimidate and "dispose" off any intelligent, honest opposition to rank abuse of power, and stay on in power without absolutely any "age limit" with the help of this ill gotten money. 4. There is no way for any thinking human being to become a political leader in India to tackle any kind of "issues". 5. There is absolutely no benefit in researching, debating or writing about the muzzling of genuine voices in Indian democracy and the slow, agonizingly painful strangling of whatever "freedom" the so-called "Fathers" of the Indian Constitution envisaged for "independent" India. 6. Rahul Gandhi invited students to join politics to rid the system of corruption. I believe he was answering the question to avoid immediate embarrassment before the youth. He should be aware that independent thinkers have no role in political power or the Indian society; "whistle blowers" are simply got ride off; "key witnesses" become either dead or "turn hostile". 7. This is our reality. Let us get on with our fettered lives, give up thinking and die on the roadside with our head between our tails.

Nobody can stop a CA from upkeeping his high morale and ethics.. "Wo patte nahin hain hum jo shaakhon se toot jaayein, Aandhiyon ko kaho aukaat mein rahein...!!" upkeeping ethics is a personal perspective which depends on the inner resolve which one has. "

i think if we refuse to do audits till black money wont come back to our country ......jab MCA and tax dept main koi return and financial statement nahin jayengi tab b kuch ho sakta hai.....i know ye sab batein bolne k liye hai kuch hona to hai nahin.....

Choose the best leave the rest

see i thnk we ourself are responsible for corruption. Today none of us have time and in lieu of the deficiency of time we are ready to spend some extra bucks. this extra money creates greed in the mind of person receiving bribe and he starts expecting bribe frm everyone. In lieu of ths extra money some privileges are provided towards whch we are attracted. how many of us ourself had applied for driving licence/ passport without the help of dealers. police charges money to write FIR for lost phone. same things happens in taxation department where some non conformities can be ignored by paying some extra fees(bribe). These all things create a cycle and when today the limit of corruption have crossed we are yelling at the persons ruling the country. It is easy to pinpoint and find mistakes in others and none of us ever admits his/her contribution to corruption.

there is a nexus among politicos, bureaucrats, then businessman, the goondas for yet again to remain in power and hereby marginalising mass of lower and lower middle class of persons

I think- By paying Less taxes, we can help in controlling black money.

We should not make this platform to blame govt or any-other but should end this discussion by making at least 10 serious suggestions for CA's and ICAI to implement....

I read the whole article on real estate business in eco times.
it said the same. It includes the mostly unaccounted income. not only the builders but the government too.

mostly builders are directly or indirectly associated with/in polictics.

its all the govt soured

All depends on the efficient ligislation government.

govt. dont hav any intention to bring back the black money because this belong to you and me and NOT TO THEM

This is not new. Lot of money is looted by politicians. Best example is by giving one banlglow by Nehru family to nation they aquire whole country. Now they become son, daugther-in-law, yuvraj of india. Where we are the insect of corruption has been started with Nehru and congress party. In history the corruption lesson congress learnt from English people. can you belive how Nahru was living when India was poor. Thanks to private Institution who developed the nation and not by congress. Congress started cost politics and you know most corrupt people are, they are from these casts who were not having moral and want to become more rich with little salary they got. Even Ambedkar could have not thought about such think.

CAs cant do alot without proper administrative support..
V need proper administration to first check wrong doings of govt. and them the common man

Black money is a parallel economy which has its roots in land deals, stock markets, business deals, donations to political parties/ charitable trusts etc. Ever since independence every successive Government at the Center has never tried to curb black money for its own political ends. There are many property deals taking place without much revenue to the Govt. as the paper transaction is totally different from the actual transaction. This is where the black money is rampant in India. The tax, people are well aware of this but they also get the booty. It is better to levy tax on all property deals at reasonable or at flat rates for more revenue to the Government.

Govt is fully,totally nd 100% corrupted....in case CA's want 2 take a stand and change something....they will not make us do so....govt is the root of all dis generation of black money.....

CAs are common man.. they shall b controlled only after there is true intention to CONTROL at topmost administrative level.

Is it not better to let black money b with common man.. then paying taxes and passing it on to topmost level for their scams and Swiss-bank deposits??

What about the hidden treasure within India in the name of unaccounted money for which the citizen evaded tax and also encourage illegal transactions. Every citizen is aware that the Cinema producers are taking the support of unaccounted money only and investing many crore in taking the cinemas on these days and they convert the unaccounted treasure by making huge advertisements as super hit shows and convert the hidden treasure as White money.Who is having the courage to unearth such hidden treasures as most of the holders are Politicians and VVIPs

But we must have the courage to be accountable / responsible for what we do. we are not politicians who always pass the buck.
Present position of GST = SGST = State VAT, CGST = CST, IGST = Central Excise + Customs (CBEC). Same cake with different name.

In first place , each establishment should be registered with some office, then each point of transaction i.e. buy/ sale should be taxed, and then the authority to check the compliances at each level.

It's our obligation and to say, characteristicaly we should be absolutely confidential. There is no second thought in that. Fight against corruption doesn't mean to reveal the truth of some body, especially who rely you. This is what Kiran Bedi distinguished as "We are not against the government, but to bring in proper governance".

Correct,, and the issue is not only with the bringing back the black money but also to rule this economy by eligible peoples too.

This discussion should be for 24 hours.....

Converting black money into white money is not possible without help of CA's. Everybody’s client is ready to grease the palm of CA. We don't have any conscience left to think about our Nation. We all just think about our own comfort. What do you have to say about this sir????? Why we are not doing anything regarding this???? What steps should be taken to stop all these things???

At least we can accept that we have a role in generating black money.

All the people are not the same dear....some are vry loyal 2 their profession and i really appreciate and respect those persons.....

It's not like that. This is one profession which has been recognised by most of the fellow citizens irrespective of their field. I don't know what you are coming to say by quoting "converting black money into white money..." What the law requires, we are supposed to do and all fellow CAs does.

C.A. is smart enough to find ways of tax planning [ evasion ]

Rightly said.. v CAs are so called tax-planners.. its our job to find loop-holes

I m not talking about we people. BUT the society as a whole. Media should try convince people maybe by this way.

People dont trust govt...this is a very big factor y no one wants to do anything...

the generating point of Black money is evasion of tax........

I belive, unless we bring proper compliance system inside the country, chances of bringing money back from abroad is minimal. And the very fact, black money revolving domestically is more more than money stashed away and which is real cause of inflation. One layman eg. real estate dealings. Even a kid may know what's the value per sqft in town.

Really I couldn't understand whether we all had tied our eyes and fighting against corruption. Yes, Of course. Money stashed abroad may amount $462 billion. How it happened ? Whether is this the money looted straight away from my or your pocket ? The system, Indian as well as globally, that prevails, helps automaticaly to do such acts. And one world bank report says, atleast 40% of the money funded for particular projects has not reached it's destination.

Dear Sir . ICAI should present before Govt services of CA's in Scrutiny of AIR Information and returns after all the basic problem is only that people are not disclosing what they have and AIR returns are avery effectrive Tool but unforunately ICAI has not been able to capture this opportunity for CA's which is a very effective Tool. Once ICAI had also suggseted to Govt but I do not Know what reply was received from Govt side.
Unorganised sector is the main contributor for removing money out of the economy flow... govt is trying to make them organised by taking one at a time, but still a lot of work in this regard is to be done.

I would like to summarise my experience which is true. It is well known that Indian black money is lying in foreign banks. Foreign banks always give idea of investment in other security to earn the interest or short term gain. 2009 and 2010 was very bad years in term of earning from security etc. So in my opinion this black money would be zero or 10% of actual value. If bank has done any false promise or wrong decision while investment even though owner of black money can not file any case against bank because bank knows that this money was generated illegally. Means Indian money was enjoyed by foreigner because of our few politicians. Corruptions can not stop if current politician will exist because all parties hands are in gloves, so you recruit JPC etc will be not effective at all. Better put the ban on all existing politician and call for new party.

Well we can't be sure of anything but its worth trying.

Bank A/c no., PAN, Service Tax Regn. No., TIN etc should be based on UID...............

As the UID is implemented very soon in the whole of INDIA, this should be used to give reference of the same in the transactions entered into............

UID wl help too much in stopping black money.

there are some RRbs and co-op bank which open the a/c. without PAN.

Politicos should first frame the policies in such a way to unearth this kind of money first , then the other agencies comes into the play.
CA institute can only guide these things
right...CA institute can guide these things...n can do a lot in controlling black money but not eradicating it all together....

Sir people are fed up of providing the bribes to babus again and again on the matters which are legal,correct, judicious.

One of the root causes of black money and corruption in India is funding of elections with unaccounted money. All elections in India are funded with money which is not accounted for. Political donations should be made public. Another root cause is the functioning of Swiss banks, the biggest heavens of black money in the world. These banks should be banned from doing business in India. Just log on to the web sites of these banks and one will get to know how these banks abet and facilitate routing of black money to "alternate investment channels". Every major politician in India has a Swiss bank account. Hence, no political party will dare to take on the Swiss banks heads on. Generation of black money will continue in India till Swiss banks function in the way they do today. Whether one likes it or not all big industralists, even the ones who claim that they they are holier than the cow maintain Swiss bank accounts where illegitimate money is parked.

Our institute's Web site has designed that every one can see the updates and privacy. WWW.ICAI.ORG. Other important organisations also have these kind of sites which doesn't have any security to maintain privacy. I have visited the sites of ICAEW, that there are only members and students who are allowed to view the informations. I think its tiny part also to stop or control black money.

These bureaucrats, and politicians are boosting the black money, they encourage other parts of the society so as to inflate, accelerate the ill money, such that a majority of maasses is deprived of the basic ammenties.

Forensic audit, corruption audit, peer review boards are good solutions if properly implemented. top-down approach shud be used coz there should b strict adherence, but complete eradication is not possible.

We hav many tools..but wats d use..if we dont use dem in d ryt perspective !!!!

Where should be a control over every system.. may it be CAs. its human nature to mould his ways acc. to his comfort without control.

E-governance will play an important role too.............

Technology should be used in the right direction for unearthing truth.

One's inner conscious should be enlightened and strong enough to guide in selecting the RIGHT path.

try and be independent and prudent while performing your tasks... you should able to trace the wrong doings.

Just perform ur duties honestly..dont run after money..oblige ur profession...n respect ur independence...dont lose it at any cost...may be these things will help....

there is a need of great transparency and use of technology in such a way so that data can retrieved easily and there should be a link between the transactions...

We all should change ourself first....alteast all the young blood and future CA's must take an oath that v will not do any corrupted stuff and will b loyal to our profession and become d "TRUE CA".....:)

thats what people do before entering any profession and the result is all you know.

The oath may not b in front of anybody.....it should be to OUR SELF first....dat v will not take undue advantage from our profession....nd wen v will promise our self v will definitely think twice before doing any wrong...

We should attack the problem in phases . In first phase The Money should be brought to India under a VDIS Scheme not to be replicated for say another fifty years and secondly we should make the Govts system of Tendering and Order booking Technology based. We should ask them to go for e tendering all over the Country with immediate effect say by giving some deadline. If the entire system become transparent thru e Tendering generation of black money can be controlled . Secondly Reaals estate transactions can be registered at Market value and the rate of Stamp Duty could be lowered to nulify the Loss to businessmen.

If black money deposits was an Olympics event..
India would have won a gold medal hands down. The second best Russia has 4 times lesser deposit. U.S. is not even there in the counting in top five! India has more money in Swiss banks
than all the other countries combined!

A new study by an international watchdog on the illicit flight of money from the country, perhaps the first ever attempt at shedding light on a subject steeped in secrecy, concludes that India has been drained of $462 billion (Rs 20,556,848,000,000 or over Rs 20 lakh crore) between 1948 and 2008.
The amount is nearly 40% of India's gross domestic product, and nearly 12 times the size of the estimated loss to the government because of the 2G spectrum scam. The study has been authored by Dev Kar, a lead economist with the US-based Global Financial Integrity, a non-profit research body that has long crusaded against illegal capital flight.

Mr Kar, a former senior economist with the International Monetary Fund, says illicit financial flows out of India have grown at 11.5% a year, debunking a popular notion that economic reforms that began nearly two decades ago had tempered the creation and stashing away of black money overseas.
Outflows accelerated after reforms
If capital outflows were a child of the independence era, the problem came of age in the years after the reforms kicked in. Nearly 50% of the total illegal outflows occurred since 1991. Around a third of the money exited the country between 2000 and 2008.
"It shows that reforms seem to have accelerated the transfer of black money abroad," says Mr Kar, whose study titled 'The Drivers and Dynamics of Illicit Financial Flows from India: 1948-2008' sifts through piles of data on the issue over a period of 61 years. The study, which Mr Kar says is the most comprehensive one yet on illicit financial flows from India.

Sir, organise a seminar kind concerning the matter
i believe it is knowledgable to have such sessions.

It is pertinent to note that the role of CA is very crucial to curb the black money...........

Discussion on these topics to be done at all the branches and common feedback to be forwarded to ICAI so that they can look into matter and make the best policy.... please let us to do at all the branches.

We all should change ourself first....alteast all the young blood and future CA's must take an oath that v will not do any corrupted stuff and will b loyal to our profession and become d "TRUE CA".....:)

If your conscience allow u to do so den u will do it nd nobody can stop u....its our inner self which guides us nd v make our own logbook of right and wrong....I consider it wrong to be disloyal 2 our profession...may be u consider it right...

Not possible
On macro basis our institute is too small a body to have such empanelment
BAD IS ""Disease is idntified widespread and WORST IS ""cure is in the hands of person diseased
If black money returns its an amount that can repay all country's debt 2 world and other intrntnal org and no budget requrd for few yearsIndia no more a indebted country

How much Indian money do you think is stashed away in the Swiss Banks?

In 2006, the most recent Global Financial Integrity study, developing countries lost an estimated $858.6 billion (about Rs 43 lakh crore) to $1.06 trillion (abot Rs 51 lakh crore) in illicit financial outflows. Even at the lower end of the range of estimates, the volume of illicit financial flows coming out of developing countries increased at a compound rate of 18.2 percent over the five-year period analysed for the study. On average, for the five-year period of this study, Asia accounts for approximately 50 percent of overall illicit financial flows from all developing countries.

This report shows that the average amount stashed away from India annually during 2002-06 is $27.3 billion (about 136,466 crore). It means that during the five-year period the amount stashed away is 27.3x5=136.5 billion (about 692,328 crore). It is not that all these amounts went to Swiss banks. It has gone to different tax and secret shelters. The share of Swiss banks in dirty money being a third of the global aggregate, some $45 billion out of the 136.5 billion stashed away from India would have been hoarded in these years in Swiss banks.

The important point is that this is only for five years. More amounts were stashed away during the Nehruvian regime. So the loot for 55 years will be several times higher. In fact, in those days the rupee commanded a better value per dollar. So fewer rupee could get more dollars. So the estimation that the Indian money stashed away may be of the order of $1.4 trillion (about Rs 71 lakh crore).

for money abroad tax @ 45% -money in India @ 35% -last date 31.12.2011-All documents under VDS to be certified by CAs-Remuneration of CAs to be based on amount declared to be paid by the Government-Disclosure under VDS should be minimum of Rs.50 lacs .

To curb and control for future -large transaction should be PAN based- Remittances abroad of all nature under certificate of 15CB-No DTAA with the countries which are not ready to share information as regards deposits by Indians - Changes in FEMA - No permission to do business with Tax heaven countries –

I believe that it has become common practice for every CA in practice to work for client not for nation!!!! Sir you tell me who will complain???/// the client??????????for whom we r working

Cases like Satyam have shown double faces of chartered accontants.. Does your esteemed institute have plans to stop such occurances in future.

In my professional carrier of last 7 yrs, I hav never bribed in tax officer and promise to that till I stop appearing in front of tax authorities on behalf of client.

Yes Thats the Basic Issue . The Black Money has gone into our Blood and we must clean our soul and heart if we really want to do something I would urge people to Comment and take step in the Direction. After all one person is subjecting his life for this cause and we are not doing any thing. All CA's should unite to gather and take an oath that no one will Purchase any of the Govt Offiilas to get their work done then only this mission would be successful.

another malpractice going on is the Fee competition between CA's themself ....for instance 1 CA charges 15000 for certain audit assignment.... but the freshers are charging 3000 to 5000 for the same work......i mean to say what impression does this leave on society.....what will they think that are those CA's overcharging?????

Our institute has already made the limits of all type of fees nd being gud professionals we shuld strictly follow dem nd if anyone in ur notice dont follow this limits slab thn plz get it to b in notice of our institute..So dat indirectly u cn play ur role in controlng black money. this z also a way to control black money.

We as C.A.s can, if work together, change the view of common people toward us.. its v ourself, who need to stand for our profession.

pl. dont crisies fresher cas, every CA is a fresher in starting and do everything what are u talking, CA ka role black money ko controll karne me ho hi nahi sakta, agar black money control ho jaegi to phir CA ko karne ko kya rahega....

Reputed and old doctors also charges high fees as compared to new ones, but minimum fee rules should be adhered to, dont pay CAs for their services in cash and without proper bills.

Not to indulge in corrupt practices is every individual's responsibility; CAs, because they account for knowing the financial position of the companies and the intricacies involved are expected to bring about any unfair/corrupt findings they have come across. So, if the matter is not documented it's in itself is an evidence of unfair/corrupt practice involved.
This is just my opinion, others are very much welcomed to put their views.

Why ICAI is not taking action against the Members who are involved in Money Laundaring Business. ICAI Should take propeer Action.

It has become common practice for every CA in practice to work for client not for nation!!!!

CAs hv got major role 2 play, coz dey knw abt d loop holes 4m wher tax planning comes in handy 4 dos black money makers.
CG needs 2 appoint CA's while framing DTAA or TIEA ( tax info exchange agreemnt).

The 2nd thing,i'll suggest is CG sud plug scope of tax evasion.

ICAI should make a committee to create a separate document something like accounting standards, which should elaborate the activities (specific not general), that would be considered as wrong or creating black money and than role of auditors to prevent and detect those activities from financial statements from different clients also there should be some penalties regarding those activities, these penal action should be decided in consultation with SEBI, CBDT, MCA and other such authorities......

The role of chartered accountants in the civil society is control the generation and flow of money in constructive and efficient manner. However most of the practicing chartered accountants believe themselves as the bridge between the common poeple and tax authorities. I would like to ask our hounorable senior members to explain our real role in dealings with tax authorities.
TILL THIS STEP BLACK MONEY IS A SLACK ATTEMPT FOR ALLBY ANY MEANS.

A separate independant body should be made for nominating the auditors of the company and moreover every year the the personal accounts of the partners of the firms should be scrutinised by this body to ensure that they are in no way taking any other sort of amount from the company other than the prescribed fee amount.

What about the word used "entry" in our profession? We use this as passing an accounting entry. But for many of the CAs it is an businees to the for converting black into white, what we can do to curb this thing?

Do you think that chartered accountant without the cooperation and willingness of entrepreneur and executive (admn) can play any effective role in controlling black money.

this is not a statement which would be welcomed by any of the indians. how can a minister say that money cannot be brought back?? why is it that ministers are trying to cover up mess by only saying that black money could be converted to white? why is there no investigation being made so as to find out source of that huge money? all this is because all of these ministers and other people are themselves involved in black money scams.

Why was the event named Role of Chartered Accountants in "Controlling" Black Money and not "checking" or "stopping" black money?Does this suggest that it cant be eradicated entirely or some black money is necessary for an economy?